2024 talk:Wikimania

Excitement

I'm excited! The Master of Hedgehogs (talk) 23:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

🥳 Yug (talk) 16:33, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Forced to consent

The last question on the proposal submission form is consent to open licensing. The form requires that users consent to this -

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Should your session be selected for the program, do you consent to having your session and supporting materials released on-wiki and on the eventyay platform under CC BY-SA 4.0? If you selected “Do not record this session” your session will not be filmed and no video will appear online.*

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I proposed an LGBT+ meetup. We have safety and security concerns, and cannot consent to this being an open session. Still, the form compelled me to consent and would take no other response.

Please change the form to allow users to decline consent. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:45, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry, meet-ups do not fall under the regular programme. More informations will be published soon at 2024:Meetups. Nadzik (talk) 02:53, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

2024:Attendees

 Done ― 2024:Attendees is now visible in 2024:Registration Yug (talk) 10:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

For information, I created the page on the basis of the previous year and started to fill it with some data. Yug (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

The Attendees page cannot be added by common editors into Template:Wikimania 2024 header:

« You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:
This page has been protected from editing because it is transcluded in the following page, which is protected with the "cascading" option turned on: 2024:Organisers. »

Yug (talk) 09:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for creating the page. The registration for Wikimania hasn't opened yet and we think that making this item (or items related to registration) visible in the menu at the moment could confuse some people about whether it's possible to register now or not (or even whether they missed it). We will certainly make this page visible in the future, along with more details on registration. Msz2001 (talk) 10:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Done, see section's top. Yug (talk) 10:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Pre-conference

 Done ― 2024.08.06 : closed door pre-conference for « themathic specialist workshops (i.e. policy) and place for specialist (i.e. affiliate GLAM staff) ». Exact dates under discussion, will be announced later.

@Msz2001: hello. Is there, as in previous years, a pre-conference with hackathon technical training and other meta discussions ? If so, please display it somewhere as exterior institutions may require it as a proof for travel funding.

Second point, are you or who is/are the relevant Wikimania liaison to ping for informaton on this wiki ? Yug (talk) 09:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @Yug! I've redirected the question to the COT. Yes, I can be pinged with questions, I'll make sure people who know how to answer will answer them :). Msz2001 (talk) 10:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Msz2001 ! It's possible I will also coordinate with you for some edits. Yug (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Yug, as for pre-conference, at the moment we can tell so:

The main conference is on Aug 7 (opening + program), Aug 8 & Aug 9 (program) and Aug 10 (program + closing). There will be a pre-conference on Aug 6 in a different venue nearby, as well, but it will NOT be open to everyone, as these will be sessions in a type of themathic specialist workshops (i.e. policy) and place for specialist (i.e. affiliate GLAM staff); this is why we are not advertising this more openly. This is already in the works internally.

More information will be available on wiki soon or sent to relevant stakeholders.

As for your other questions below, I've asked again today and I'll let you know as soon as I'll get the information. Msz2001 (talk) 17:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikimedia Hackathon

Msz2001 hello, could you confirm the exact days when the Hackathon room will be open ? August 7-10th for sure, but does it include 08.06 (pre-conference) ? Hugo en résidence (talk) 08:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Hugo en résidence, Hackathon will have its designated room for all days of the regular conference but not on Aug 6th. Msz2001 (talk) 09:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Partner hostels

 Done ― partner hostels booked in full, no more room available. Won't be disclosed online. Yug (talk) 15:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello User:Msz2001, as for partner hostels, do Wikimedia have some hostel names to share ? Some of us are starting to book our stays in Katowice. After the organizers pre-booked bulk of the rooms for staff and grantees, it could be interesting for other self-funded participants to book near those places in order to spend more time exchanging ideas. A Wikimania classic is, after high-speed day, to meet up in late evening or breakfast Wikimedian chats with other participants, in the hotel's diner room, lobby, or else. Yug (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Yug, just to ensure if I got the point - you're asking about where scholars/staff will have rooms, right? Msz2001 (talk) 15:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Msz2001, yes it s what i meant 👍🏼. Yug (talk) 16:16, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Msz2001 hello, any news on pre-conference and partner hostel ? Yug (talk)

@Yug, I've just got the answer from COT. The place where scholars and staff will located will not be disclosed sooner than in May-June. Msz2001 (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Msz2001 hello. Any news from that front ? I'm in the Wikimedia France's Wikimania commission for scholarships, our scholarship recipients are asking us where they should book their Wikimania 2024 hostel. Let me know here or via email so I forward to our grantees. ;) Yug (talk) 10:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I've sent an e-mail. Msz2001 (talk) 10:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank, issue closed. See above. Yug (talk) 15:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Registration fees ?

 Done ― Opened up to July 26th, 2024, see 2024:Registration.

Hello Msz2001, What will be the registrations fees ? will there be some different prices for different participants :

Group	Registration fees
Full shorlarship recipients	Free.
Partial shorlarship recipients	Free.
All others	Est. US100$.

Yug (talk) 14:34, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Yug, the registration fee will be 100 USD for all participants (except for scholars, as their fee is covered by the scholarship). Msz2001 (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Perfect ! I forwarded this info to my boss and accountant, my plane booking and hostel can now go forward. Thank you Msz2001 for those 3 answers above. Yug (talk) 08:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Possible to see submissions?

Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

User:Bluerasberry hello,

If you submitted something, log in and go there :

• https://wikimania.eventyay.com/2024/me/submissions/

Otherwise, the session proposals are currently kept for the submission reviewing group afaik. Hugo en résidence (talk) 12:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. This year the session proposals were not copied to the wiki. The details of accepted sessions will of course be available, but only after the programming group prepares and publishes the program. Msz2001 (talk) 07:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Where do you register when you don't have a scholarship ?

 Done ― Opened up to July 26th, 2024, see 2024:Registration.

I have allready booked my plane and hotel in order to have the cheepest price possible but I am wondering where does one register when you don't have a scholarship ? Natacha LSP (talk)

The attendee registration for Wikimania hasn't started yet. Once it's available, we'll provide more information on the wiki how and where to register. Msz2001 (talk) 07:57, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello Natacha LSP, registration have been opened, see 2024:Registration. Yug (talk) 10:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Update on meetup proposals?

I see one meetup already advertised at 2024:Program/GLAM Global meetup

What is the process for proposing meetups? I would like to propose some. Thanks. Bluerasberry (talk) 17:58, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Bluerasberry and sorry for answering so late. These meetups were submitted along program proposals, but will not occupy time-space on the regular program (these can get rooms after sessions). If you like to propose some more, it'd be best to contact the team directly at wikimania@wikimedia.org. Msz2001 (talk) 08:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Msz2001: Based on 2024_talk:Wikimania#Forced_to_consent I told people that meetups would open later. The submission form was not at all set up for meetups and for the LGBT+ meetup for example, we simply do not release our presentation materials because we always have safety concerns. At Wikimania last year our group was the target of a protest as described in en:LGBT_and_Wikipedia#Wikimedia_movement, with local people objecting to gender neutral restrooms.

We got accepted because I submitted our request as a public event, not a special interest meetup, but others who needed the space may not have known. I am American, male, and white, and I am forceful and assertive so I get my way. Please do check in with others who may not have been so bold as to demand a meetup when it seemed like there was no option. Bluerasberry (talk) 15:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry: the meetups page has been published. It's a place where people can add their meetups in order to have a room reserved (just like Nadzik said earlier). Msz2001 (talk) 17:53, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism?

I bumped into {{tl:delete|Not a translation}} kohnezamka{{@}}gmail.com elsewhere, on the right pane under a section title "Translate". Are we sure that such is not a translation, for speedy deletion? Omotecho (talk) 17:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@Omotecho: it indeed is worthy of speedy-deletion - I've refiled it so that a meta:GS can hopefully do this. Leaderboard (talk) 17:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@Leaderboard, thank you for swift look up, and relieved to know it's in good hands now. (= Cheers, -- Omotecho (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging that! I deleted also other pages from the Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. Msz2001 (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikimania group

wikimania group of students who are interested to learn about your current search and what have you been doing with the internet marketing services industry 41.122.0.17 06:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

If this was meant to be a question please rephrase it to be an actual question. I can't understand the point. Msz2001 (talk) 15:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Online participation to satisfy or violate Wikimedia community principles?

Will the online participation be run using FOSS and available to remote participants using FOSS clients, satisfying the spirit of the first of the fundamental Wikimedia principles and values ("spirit", because technically, the text of the charter only talks about what we "produce" rather than how we organise ourselves), or will it be privacy-violating and be part of the non-commons software/server ecosystem (such as Zoom or even worse)? As a reminder, https://switching.software/replace/zoom lists publicly discussed and negotiated FOSS video/audio communicators including Jitsi, BigBlueButton (BBB), and Jami.

I searched a bit here on wikimania.wikimedia.org but couldn't find info on what software and on whose servers the online component will be run. Boud (talk) 09:48, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Boud! We are using the same open source platform as was used for the 2023 Wikimania – Eventyay. If I understand this correctly, here is its repository. Nadzik (talk) 07:17, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Cześć Nadzik :). Good to see that the server used for conference organising is run on FOSS - Apache v2.0 is generally accepted. However, the question about online participation in the sense of audio/video or text communicators remains open:

git clone https://github.com/fossasia/support.eventyay.com.git

grep -arEi "bbb|bigblue|jitsi|jami|zoom|matrix|mattermost|irc|mastodon|fediverse|activitypub" support.eventyay.com/* |grep -vai "\.png"

where the second grep is to ignore image (png) files with e.g. bbb or Bbb or BBb, and /* is needed to avoid grepping the .git/ directory. This gives no lines of code with the listed (case-insensitive) strings. So maybe the info is there, but I didn't find it. The head is at commit e0cd565b of 18 Feb 2021.

What video/audio/text-messaging software and servers are currently planned for the online participants? There's not much time left, but if the current plan is to use privacy-violating software contrary to Wikimedia community principles (beyond just GDPR/RODO), there's still time to ask for help from Wikimedia techies. Boud (talk) 14:45, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

@Boud: For what's worth, some events cannot use open-source software; my event uses one that is not FOSS (Quizizz). https://switching.software/ doesn't have a entry for that. Not sure what's the case generally, but just noting in case you have one I'm not aware of (other than https://classquiz.de/). Leaderboard (talk) 15:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

@Leaderboard: WIMS (GPL-licensed) is used in many high schools and undergraduate university courses in France, Spain and Italy. You could also search alternative lists than switching.software itself or ask specifically for FOSS alternatives to Quizizz. Boud (talk) 16:26, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Cześć @Boud, all intra-conference communication (including chat and video) will also be taking place on Eventyay, the same platform as the streaming. It has a dedicated space for all chats and hybrid speaking. I hope this answers your question! Nadzik (talk) 13:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

@Nadzik: No, it does not answer the question. I cited the exact commands above that show that searching through the 416 kbytes of commit e0cd565b of the Eventyay.com code that you pointed to (excluding .git/, and in addition excluding images/) shows no hint at all of what software is going to be used for online audio/video participation. The phrase "dedicated space" is an abstraction - it says nothing about the software that will be used, nor what servers will be used. If Eventyay.com plans to use its own servers for video participation, that would tend to suggest the use of BBB/jitsi/jami (3 others are listed here), but so far you have not told us anything specific.

What part of commit e0cd565b of the source does the streaming? Boud (talk) 13:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry @Boud, you need to add the ping in the same edit as your first message, otherwise the ping won't work. As to your question, I don't think I am able to answer your question then, I am not aware about the technology. Please e-mail wikimaniawikimedia.org and someone from the WMF will answer you! Nadzik (talk) 08:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@MPaul (WMF), LMccabe (WMF), NSzafran-WMF, and Phoebe: It's four days since I asked what video/audio software is going to be used for online participation in the Aug 2024 Wikimania meeting, and whether it's FOSS and there's still no answer - Nadzik is an organiser, but doesn't know. I am not going to send an email about this, because it's a public issue, not private. It's one of the fundamental principles of the Wikimedia community that we use and encourage the use of FOSS. The choice of software is not "just a technical choice" (a.k.a. the #TyrannyOfConvenience), it's a fundamental part of having a viable, open, long-term Wikimedia community as part of a wider viable, long-term, open beyond-Wikimedia community.

What software is going to be used for video/audio online participation in the August 2024 Wikimania? Boud (talk) 11:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Boud - One of the main reasons, Eventyay the virtual platform that @Nadzik mentioned was selected for Wikimania by the volunteer COT back in 2023 - is because it is free and open source. It is developed and maintained by the movement-aligned FOSSASIA who use it for the FOSS Asia Summit amongst other events. We have been working with them to continuously improve the platform both for Wikimania but also to make sure like-minded organisations have a FOSS alternative for their events.

For streaming the audio and video, Wikimania operates on a different scale to most conferences. Last year we had 2866 participants watching streams across 7 rooms; 4 rooms had live interpretation into 5 languages leading to 23 possible combinations of audio and video for 2866 people to watch in. More importantly, one of the biggest parts of our virtual audience was dialling in from across Africa and Asia - often with unreliable connections needing data centers serving their regions for the live feeds to work properly. That's one end of the problem.

On the other end, we also have speakers that participate virtually. We need software that is super reliable and accessible in different parts of the world for them too. We also need software that non-technical people know how to use, so we don't risk losing speakers as they are attempting to join their session. We need the capabilities of waiting rooms and breakout rooms as that's how we bring speakers backstage and then prepare them to go onstage. Finally, the venue we work with handles receiving and prepping virtual speakers and are used to dealing with Zoom and this was their preference.

I accept that EventYay is not perfect as even though the platform itself is FOSS, is maintained and developed by FOSSASIA and helps support a FOSS-alternative for like-minded orgs, it does use some non-FOSS technologies. I hope you can see the journey we've been on (e.g. compared to a few years ago), the tradeoffs we need to make and the efforts being made to prioritise FOSS where we can. ~~~~ LMccabe (WMF) (talk) 15:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@LMccabe (WMF): Thanks for finally answering the question in your third paragraph: Wikimania 2024 is going to violate online participants' privacy and computer security by using Zoom. This is not the place to analyse the question of who is to blame and whether or not this is an acceptable compromise. I acknowledge that you consider it to be a fair compromise. Nevertheless, the fact that even the organising committee of Wikimania couldn't answer the question, and the fact that it took 6 days to get an answer to the question suggests that the use of FOSS for remote participant privacy and security was not seen as a high priority.

Obviously this is not going to be changed less than a week before the meeting. I recommend that it be taken more seriously for future Wikimanias. The 2021 analysis that you point to is evidence that FOSS has been ignored: it talks vaguely about "technology" and says nothing about FOSS. Asking people about effectiveness independently of whether the participants were aware of which software was FOSS and which was non-FOSS is absurd. Putin has been highly effective in invading 1/5 of Ukraine, but that's not part of a long-term viable geopolitical solution. In any future analyses of the "effectiveness" of Wikimania organising, please do not use "the ends justify the means" in ignoring the role of FOSS. Moreover, a proper analysis should avoid the use of the jargon "platform". There are servers and software, there are organisations that run servers, and there are open communities that develop software. The jargon "platform" only applies when there's an opaque organisation+software combination where the outside world cannot freely change the server + software combination. Boud (talk) 15:58, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@MPaul (WMF), LMccabe (WMF), NSzafran-WMF, and Phoebe: WMF people have a habit of ignoring Wikimedia community wikis, but this is starting to get absurd. Five days after asking a basic question about Wikimania, we still don't have an answer about Wikimania online plans. Let's try again:

What software is going to be used for video/audio online participation in the August 2024 Wikimania? Boud (talk) 20:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@Nadzik: Could you please ask the WMF people to answer here publicly? The risk of email in this context would be that it requires extra overhead in terms of warning the WMF people that their answers will be considered public, me having to copy/paste those answers here, and uninvolved people having to guess whether I've accurately and completely copy/pasted the contents of the WMF people's responses to this wiki, and the possibility that the WMF people will claim that I cannot make their answers public. Do I really have to explain this can of worms in terms of extra overhead to avoid the risk of manipulation in the context of Wikimania? Which is about the wikis of the Wikimedia community? I have been assuming good faith, but this is getting a little absurd. (@MPaul (WMF), LMccabe (WMF), NSzafran-WMF, and Phoebe: Reping.) Boud (talk) 10:36, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@Boud: I am sorry that you are not happy with the answers that you have gotten so far on this topic, but since we are currently in the midst of the conference, we are not changing anything about the software setup for this year, and the organizers who have the very technical information you seek about server setup (if that was not answered, I can't quite tell) are not available to answer questions due to running the event. I am sorry if you don't feel you can participate due to use of zoom. Your tone is very combative however, so I would ask that you also assume good faith of the organizers. As previously stated, we are trying to use and support FOSS platforms. I see your message about reconsidering software for future years, and it is noted by the Wikimania steering committee. -- Phoebe (talk) 14:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

@Phoebe: My first message was 25 July. It's obvious that right now, with Wikimania already having started, there are not going to be any major changes in the software setups. On 27 July it might have still been possible to fix things, but in any case, the main priority was to get a straight answer regarding the actual plans. It took six days to finally get the answer, hidden at the end of the third paragraph in a four-paragraph answer by LMccabe (WMF).

It is incorrect to state that this information is "very technical" information. It is not very technical information. The names of software packages (as opposed to the vague jargon of "platforms") are easy to identify and discuss by non-specialists. FOSS is a fundamental part of the Wikimedia movement; anyone with organising responsibilities in the Wikimedia movement should be aware of what software s/he is using. My messsage of 25 July has links to Wikipedia entries for the key software packages: no technical ability is needed to browse those pages and understand enough to know which is FOSS and which is not, and why the non-FOSS package is unethical.

Regarding my tone, I think that the slowness and content of the responses shows that my tone was very much justified. I see nothing "combative" about the tone; being firm is not being combative. I assumed good faith, but requested evidence. Statements such as "As previously stated, we are trying to use and support FOSS platforms" are fine in principle, but need to be backed up by evidence, and by disambiguation of the jargon "platforms" into concrete software packages versus organisations that run that software on physical computer servers.

Glad to hear that the Wikimania steering committee has taken note. Boud (talk) 18:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Rename the conference

Was there ever a proposal to rename the conference? I understand that the conference is for Wikicomunity, but If you presented to someone else sounds wierd. Juandev (talk) 20:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @Juandev! I'm not sure if I or this year's COT could answer that question. I believe it would be better to direct it by an e-mail to wikimaniawikimedia.org, where it can find more people who could be better suited to answer. And I'd recommend to ask it only after the event – the organizers are now working hard on things that have to be done now (and this one is not that urgent, I believe). Msz2001 (talk) 07:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@Juandev: feel free to make such a proposal to the Wikimania Steering Committee (you can tell me and I will pass it on) but the general answer is no we have not seriously considered this in the past. Generally when I am telling someone else about the conference and I think it will be confusing I just say I'm attending the annual Wikimedia conference :). Note that many editions of Wikimania have used their own language for subtitles as well. -- Phoebe (talk) 14:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Why didn't you upload to Commons the "Group Pictuers" of the Wikimania in Katowice

Why didn't you upload to Commons the "Group Pictuers" of the Wikimania in Katowice that were taken on the last day outside the conference building? Hanay (talk) 18:05, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@Hanay, the group photo from drone has been uploaded to Commons a week ago: File:Wikimania 2024 group photograph.jpg. I don't know what's the timeline for other photos taken by photographers contracted by WMF, but please note that many staff and volunteers who participated in organizing this year Wikimania planned their vacation for the second half of August, so that I wouldn't be surprised if more photos are yet to come when people get back to their work. Msz2001 (talk) 14:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

2025

Now, 2024 Wikimania has ended. Where can we find informaron about future 2025 Wikimania?. City / town / country ? Date ?. Thank you in advance. BoldLuis (talk) 17:55, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. I suggest include a link to the 2025 meeting in the 2024 main Page (in the beginning of the Page). BoldLuis (talk) 18:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)